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[00:45:01] <nedko> maybe look for SBC with chip by TI
[02:52:34] <TrevorM> hello folks. I just popped in to ask if anyone knows if there have been any discussions or plans for an oshw keyboard pcb or kit?
[04:54:52] <TrevorM> Don't everybody speak up at once, now
[09:12:30] <bill-auger> TrevorM: if you are new ti irc, know that most IRC users stay connected 24/7 - if you can not stay connected for many hours or days, then email is a better way to communicate
[09:14:46] <bill-auger> email or the web forum
[16:12:32] <clarity> Aren't there plenty of open source keyboard projects out there
[16:14:29] <clarity> People who build keyboards tend to be quite opinionated about how their keyboard should be.. which is why there are so many and which is why I don't think it would make much sense for olimex to make yet another design
[16:59:49] <tom-1> mps: The question is that I, as a buyer who pays for the goods with my money, should be informed about what I am buying.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/bb4d2011f16d0b8b3ea956546d95b964d320a7f8>)
[17:01:05] <kreyren2> <tom-1> "Shane on Conduit.rs ⚡️: Thanks..." <- pine64 is proprietary garbage imho Got RockPro64 from them and it broke after few hours of use and i can't legally repair it
[17:01:05] <kreyren2> The documentation for A64 is available in OLIMEX's repos on github (https://github.com/olimex) if something is missing then file an issue and i try to fetch them for you O.o Optionally see https://linux-sunxi.org/A64
[17:01:05] <kreyren2> Hmm we can make chips too e.g. the NXP, see postmarketOS wiki for mainlining status of things https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
[17:01:08] <mps> tom-1: OT, but then you are out of luck buying anything
[17:02:51] <kreyren2> There is also SnapDragon M845 that according to postmarketOS is the fastest mainlined chip atm
[17:03:01] <kreyren2> https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Qualcomm_Snapdragon_845_(SDM845)
[17:03:25] <mps> kreyren2: not yet fully mainlined
[17:03:37] <kreyren2> mps: the wiki says it is
[17:03:47] <kreyren2> some devices ain't bcs of the hardware combination afaik
[17:03:54] <mps> yes
[17:03:59] <kreyren2> https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/SHIFT_SHIFT6mq_(shift-axolotl) e.g.
[17:04:11] <kreyren2> which is from the people who make the kernel support
[17:04:58] <mps> "fully mainlined" in my understanding means 'everything works and correctly'
[17:06:27] <kreyren2> <tom-1> "On what principle does Olimex..." <- Last time i checked the chip was checked by multiple security researchers and the firmware is open-source for review
[17:06:57] <kreyren2> mps: everything works perfectly as long as you don't put that in a device that doesn't work correctly :D
[17:07:18] <kreyren2> kreyren2: https://github.com/ARM-software/arm-trusted-firmware
[17:08:30] <mps> :D
[17:09:34] <tom-1> Shane on Conduit.rs ⚡️: Hello. Thank you very much for the detailed answer. It will not be difficult for you to write your own selection of chips from the most free to the most non-free, for example, 3- 5variant.
[17:10:37] <kreyren2> tom-1: hm? The firmware is BSD-3 licensed https://github.com/ARM-software/arm-trusted-firmware/blob/master/docs/license.rst
[17:12:43] <tom-1> Shane on Conduit.rs ⚡️: As for PS, it's a great project, if I'm not mistaken, the best phone for PS is OnePlus6, but users write that if used every day, there may be problems
[17:13:03] <kreyren2> PS?
[17:13:17] <kreyren2> I wouldn't recommend OnePlus6 bcs it's proprietary
[17:13:54] <tom-1> https://postmarketos.org ==> PS )
[17:14:17] <kreyren2> pmos xD
[17:14:49] <tom-1> yes, pmos
[17:14:52] <tom-1> sorry
[17:15:18] <tom-1> https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/OnePlus_6_(oneplus-enchilada)
[17:15:20] <kreyren2> tom-1: theoretically the ShiftPhone Axolotl is the best phone in terms of freedom... the shiftmobile people are working on legal ways to release gerbers
[17:15:28] <tom-1> Qualcomm Snapdragon 845 (SDM845)
[17:15:29] <kreyren2> and work on the mainline
[17:15:54] <kreyren2> though overpriced
[17:16:12] <tom-1> but
[17:16:31] <tom-1> Snapdragon => China ))
[17:16:39] <kreyren2> Ye
[17:17:58] <kreyren2> i doubt that EU/US chips will be any good option until we handle the semi-conductor crisis
[17:17:58] <tom-1> Snapdragon => China ))
[17:17:58] <tom-1> Allwinner -China
[17:17:58] <tom-1> Rockchip -China
[17:17:59] <tom-1> ???
[17:18:30] <kreyren2> bcs like Germany now has the BOSCH plant and TSMC is building a plant in lithuania and US is building an intel thing in there
[17:19:04] <kreyren2> tom-1: tldr china is sending military equipment to harass taiwan who was the major supplier of semiconductors to date (~70% marketshare) so now china has a monopoly on the chips
[17:20:10] <kreyren2> bcs chips are made from rare earth materials that are mostly mined in china so taiwan was for NATO and allied countries the most logical solution and it already had thriving semi-conductor business
[17:21:05] <tom-1> Shane on Conduit.rs ⚡️: I do not mean the country of manufacture, it is clear that many companies transfer their production to this country, I'm talking about free chips! For example, developers or the community came up with a free development and you can also transfer it to China, but now we have a closed-source chip that does not know what it does!
[17:21:44] <kreyren2> you know what it does bcs you can run the firmware and bootloader that you want on them
[17:22:18] <mps> Snapdragon is Samsung Qualcom
[17:22:31] <kreyren2> mps: So south korea?
[17:23:02] <mps> kreyren2: yes, and Qualcomm is usa
[17:23:36] <kreyren2> do they actually make them outside of CSTO to exclude a supply chain attack though
[17:24:27] <tom-1> San Diego, California 👌👍️ ))
[17:24:36] <tom-1> Qualcom
[17:24:54] <mps> I don't think China is worse than USA, S. Korea or any other country on these 'things'
[17:25:20] <mps> all spies all
[17:25:32] <kreyren2> Would also use chinese chip over the US one.. the US one are harder to make libre and non-creepy usually
[17:26:12] <kreyren2> though i am also not sure if i trust rockchip.. linux triggers CPU bugs which shouldn't be a thing on arm
[17:26:59] <tom-1> all spies all =🚀👍️
[17:27:17] <kreyren2> like RISC-V doesn't spy to my knowledge
[17:27:27] <kreyren2> but it will take time to make those not suck
[17:27:57] <tom-1> it is natural that each country will always pursue its own interests! This is the norm! Therefore, you need to create a chip by the community and not by the country!
[17:28:20] <mps> kreyren2: even with it we don't know what manufacturers add
[17:28:32] <kreyren2> hmm i work on custom DarkRISC-V chips in hackerspace but didn't get far yet
[17:28:34] <clarity> I mean risc-v is just isa.. of which you're going to see many proprietary implementations
[17:29:30] <mps> clarity: I also think so
[17:30:04] <mps> for example I have riscv board but with broadcom wifi. so ...
[17:30:28] <kreyren2> mps: separate thing for wifi no?
[17:31:03] <mps> I don't know for any open wifi chip
[17:31:29] <kreyren2> mps: https://www.olimex.com/Products/USB-Modules/MOD-WIFI-AR9271-ANT/
[17:31:32] <kreyren2> olimex sells them
[17:31:42] <kreyren2> https://github.com/qca/open-ath9k-htc-firmware
[17:32:25] <kreyren2> i plan on ripping off the non-free garbage from my teres board and making a daugherboard hack for it atm
[17:32:49] <mps> kreyren2: is this chip open hardware design?
[17:33:40] <kreyren2> mps: http://en.techinfodepot.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Atheros_AR9271 does this fit in the OSHW clarification?
[17:34:46] <mps> kreyren2: idk
[17:35:21] <kreyren2> like you seem to be able to get all files for A64 if you know where to look or have a chinese friend who can buy them in shenzen for you :D
[17:39:18] <kreyren2> i guess we would need like the verilog files for A64 to know how to fabricate it?
[17:46:35] <tom-1> Shane on Conduit.rs ⚡️: you never named your top chips in terms of freedom ))
[17:47:39] <kreyren2> tom-1: i consider the A64 the most librea tm
[17:47:56] <kreyren2> well
[17:48:06] <kreyren2> the most libre that has some processing power to work with
[17:52:13] <kreyren2> or like we have the POWER9 chips
[17:52:59] <kreyren2> e.g. NXP T2080
[17:53:15] <kreyren2> possibly a good one too, but i need to do more research in it
IRC #olimex 2023-04-05
[00:43:55] <nedko> tom-1: if you don't trust the chips, buy one from factory that you trust[00:45:01] <nedko> maybe look for SBC with chip by TI
[02:52:34] <TrevorM> hello folks. I just popped in to ask if anyone knows if there have been any discussions or plans for an oshw keyboard pcb or kit?
[04:54:52] <TrevorM> Don't everybody speak up at once, now
[09:12:30] <bill-auger> TrevorM: if you are new ti irc, know that most IRC users stay connected 24/7 - if you can not stay connected for many hours or days, then email is a better way to communicate
[09:14:46] <bill-auger> email or the web forum
[16:12:32] <clarity> Aren't there plenty of open source keyboard projects out there
[16:14:29] <clarity> People who build keyboards tend to be quite opinionated about how their keyboard should be.. which is why there are so many and which is why I don't think it would make much sense for olimex to make yet another design
[16:59:49] <tom-1> mps: The question is that I, as a buyer who pays for the goods with my money, should be informed about what I am buying.... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/bb4d2011f16d0b8b3ea956546d95b964d320a7f8>)
[17:01:05] <kreyren2> <tom-1> "Shane on Conduit.rs ⚡️: Thanks..." <- pine64 is proprietary garbage imho Got RockPro64 from them and it broke after few hours of use and i can't legally repair it
[17:01:05] <kreyren2> The documentation for A64 is available in OLIMEX's repos on github (https://github.com/olimex) if something is missing then file an issue and i try to fetch them for you O.o Optionally see https://linux-sunxi.org/A64
[17:01:05] <kreyren2> Hmm we can make chips too e.g. the NXP, see postmarketOS wiki for mainlining status of things https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
[17:01:08] <mps> tom-1: OT, but then you are out of luck buying anything
[17:02:51] <kreyren2> There is also SnapDragon M845 that according to postmarketOS is the fastest mainlined chip atm
[17:03:01] <kreyren2> https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Qualcomm_Snapdragon_845_(SDM845)
[17:03:25] <mps> kreyren2: not yet fully mainlined
[17:03:37] <kreyren2> mps: the wiki says it is
[17:03:47] <kreyren2> some devices ain't bcs of the hardware combination afaik
[17:03:54] <mps> yes
[17:03:59] <kreyren2> https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/SHIFT_SHIFT6mq_(shift-axolotl) e.g.
[17:04:11] <kreyren2> which is from the people who make the kernel support
[17:04:58] <mps> "fully mainlined" in my understanding means 'everything works and correctly'
[17:06:27] <kreyren2> <tom-1> "On what principle does Olimex..." <- Last time i checked the chip was checked by multiple security researchers and the firmware is open-source for review
[17:06:57] <kreyren2> mps: everything works perfectly as long as you don't put that in a device that doesn't work correctly :D
[17:07:18] <kreyren2> kreyren2: https://github.com/ARM-software/arm-trusted-firmware
[17:08:30] <mps> :D
[17:09:34] <tom-1> Shane on Conduit.rs ⚡️: Hello. Thank you very much for the detailed answer. It will not be difficult for you to write your own selection of chips from the most free to the most non-free, for example, 3- 5variant.
[17:10:37] <kreyren2> tom-1: hm? The firmware is BSD-3 licensed https://github.com/ARM-software/arm-trusted-firmware/blob/master/docs/license.rst
[17:12:43] <tom-1> Shane on Conduit.rs ⚡️: As for PS, it's a great project, if I'm not mistaken, the best phone for PS is OnePlus6, but users write that if used every day, there may be problems
[17:13:03] <kreyren2> PS?
[17:13:17] <kreyren2> I wouldn't recommend OnePlus6 bcs it's proprietary
[17:13:54] <tom-1> https://postmarketos.org ==> PS )
[17:14:17] <kreyren2> pmos xD
[17:14:49] <tom-1> yes, pmos
[17:14:52] <tom-1> sorry
[17:15:18] <tom-1> https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/OnePlus_6_(oneplus-enchilada)
[17:15:20] <kreyren2> tom-1: theoretically the ShiftPhone Axolotl is the best phone in terms of freedom... the shiftmobile people are working on legal ways to release gerbers
[17:15:28] <tom-1> Qualcomm Snapdragon 845 (SDM845)
[17:15:29] <kreyren2> and work on the mainline
[17:15:54] <kreyren2> though overpriced
[17:16:12] <tom-1> but
[17:16:31] <tom-1> Snapdragon => China ))
[17:16:39] <kreyren2> Ye
[17:17:58] <kreyren2> i doubt that EU/US chips will be any good option until we handle the semi-conductor crisis
[17:17:58] <tom-1> Snapdragon => China ))
[17:17:58] <tom-1> Allwinner -China
[17:17:58] <tom-1> Rockchip -China
[17:17:59] <tom-1> ???
[17:18:30] <kreyren2> bcs like Germany now has the BOSCH plant and TSMC is building a plant in lithuania and US is building an intel thing in there
[17:19:04] <kreyren2> tom-1: tldr china is sending military equipment to harass taiwan who was the major supplier of semiconductors to date (~70% marketshare) so now china has a monopoly on the chips
[17:20:10] <kreyren2> bcs chips are made from rare earth materials that are mostly mined in china so taiwan was for NATO and allied countries the most logical solution and it already had thriving semi-conductor business
[17:21:05] <tom-1> Shane on Conduit.rs ⚡️: I do not mean the country of manufacture, it is clear that many companies transfer their production to this country, I'm talking about free chips! For example, developers or the community came up with a free development and you can also transfer it to China, but now we have a closed-source chip that does not know what it does!
[17:21:44] <kreyren2> you know what it does bcs you can run the firmware and bootloader that you want on them
[17:22:18] <mps> Snapdragon is Samsung Qualcom
[17:22:31] <kreyren2> mps: So south korea?
[17:23:02] <mps> kreyren2: yes, and Qualcomm is usa
[17:23:36] <kreyren2> do they actually make them outside of CSTO to exclude a supply chain attack though
[17:24:27] <tom-1> San Diego, California 👌👍️ ))
[17:24:36] <tom-1> Qualcom
[17:24:54] <mps> I don't think China is worse than USA, S. Korea or any other country on these 'things'
[17:25:20] <mps> all spies all
[17:25:32] <kreyren2> Would also use chinese chip over the US one.. the US one are harder to make libre and non-creepy usually
[17:26:12] <kreyren2> though i am also not sure if i trust rockchip.. linux triggers CPU bugs which shouldn't be a thing on arm
[17:26:59] <tom-1> all spies all =🚀👍️
[17:27:17] <kreyren2> like RISC-V doesn't spy to my knowledge
[17:27:27] <kreyren2> but it will take time to make those not suck
[17:27:57] <tom-1> it is natural that each country will always pursue its own interests! This is the norm! Therefore, you need to create a chip by the community and not by the country!
[17:28:20] <mps> kreyren2: even with it we don't know what manufacturers add
[17:28:32] <kreyren2> hmm i work on custom DarkRISC-V chips in hackerspace but didn't get far yet
[17:28:34] <clarity> I mean risc-v is just isa.. of which you're going to see many proprietary implementations
[17:29:30] <mps> clarity: I also think so
[17:30:04] <mps> for example I have riscv board but with broadcom wifi. so ...
[17:30:28] <kreyren2> mps: separate thing for wifi no?
[17:31:03] <mps> I don't know for any open wifi chip
[17:31:29] <kreyren2> mps: https://www.olimex.com/Products/USB-Modules/MOD-WIFI-AR9271-ANT/
[17:31:32] <kreyren2> olimex sells them
[17:31:42] <kreyren2> https://github.com/qca/open-ath9k-htc-firmware
[17:32:25] <kreyren2> i plan on ripping off the non-free garbage from my teres board and making a daugherboard hack for it atm
[17:32:49] <mps> kreyren2: is this chip open hardware design?
[17:33:40] <kreyren2> mps: http://en.techinfodepot.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Atheros_AR9271 does this fit in the OSHW clarification?
[17:34:46] <mps> kreyren2: idk
[17:35:21] <kreyren2> like you seem to be able to get all files for A64 if you know where to look or have a chinese friend who can buy them in shenzen for you :D
[17:39:18] <kreyren2> i guess we would need like the verilog files for A64 to know how to fabricate it?
[17:46:35] <tom-1> Shane on Conduit.rs ⚡️: you never named your top chips in terms of freedom ))
[17:47:39] <kreyren2> tom-1: i consider the A64 the most librea tm
[17:47:56] <kreyren2> well
[17:48:06] <kreyren2> the most libre that has some processing power to work with
[17:52:13] <kreyren2> or like we have the POWER9 chips
[17:52:59] <kreyren2> e.g. NXP T2080
[17:53:15] <kreyren2> possibly a good one too, but i need to do more research in it
