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[00:52:49] <orzo> what gives?
[01:03:57] <orzo> fatal: repository 'https://github.com/OLIMEX/' not found
[01:04:12] <orzo> that's what it says when i try to clone the github link in the topic of this channel
[01:04:45] <dddddd> https://github.com/OLIMEX/DIY-LAPTOP/tree/master/doc/manuals
[01:06:38] <orzo> thanks
[01:06:54] <orzo> are you with the company? somebody should fix their links
[01:08:01] <dddddd> you're welcome
[01:08:05] <dddddd> no
[01:11:10] <orzo> Do you use a teres-I ?
[01:11:26] <orzo> Is there anyway to get it with more RAM? I would want to run a debian flavor
[01:15:52] <dddddd> I don't think you can put more RAM easily. Also, I think there's a 3GiB limit because the SoC. Yeah, I have one.
[01:16:44] <dddddd> Check the forum for some debian images.
[01:22:11] <orzo> how about ethernet
[01:22:22] <orzo> would that be easier?
[01:24:11] <orzo> a review said the keyboard is cramped, I use an x201 thinkpad regularly and the keyboard is comfortable
[01:24:11] <dddddd> I used some USB ethernet device
[01:24:22] <orzo> how do you find the keyboard?
[01:24:41] <dddddd> I don't use it a lot, but feels fine
[01:30:12] <orzo> "There's even 802.11n Wi-Fi, which has me questioning what decade it is."
[01:30:38] <orzo> why would a reviewer say this? Isn't 802.11n newer than a/b/g which are still the most common wifi
[01:31:10] <orzo> Is he confused or am I?
[01:35:15] <lukas2511> he wants 802.11ac
[01:47:56] <orzo> a commenter on slashdot thinks this device is more trustworthy (than say a thinkpad) because of intel managment engine and other mysterious blobs
[01:48:00] <orzo> i tend to agree
[01:48:27] <orzo> but i want a secure machine for compiling. Compiling on this would be pretty slow. Does anybody use it for dev?
[01:56:05] <lukas2511> well, it's definitively a lot slower than something like a core-i5 processor
[01:56:55] <lukas2511> "use it for dev" kinds depends, i mean if you are a web-dev or are building small programs or whatever it's probably more than good enough
[01:57:08] <lukas2511> but if you want to compile a linux kernel on it... well... don't.
[01:58:27] <lukas2511> if you never used a system like this, you can kinda compare it to a modern(ish) android phone
[02:05:23] <orzo> well, i was thinking, linux kernel, and most large projects are modular and the builds are parallizable, so just throwing more hardware at it might make it decent enough
[02:06:55] <lukas2511> well, for a full build there are dependencies which have to be build in a specific order and those might slow your build a lot, even a big cluster wouldn't change that
[02:09:26] <lukas2511> also storage is often slower with those systems, even emmc stuff can't really hold up with something even an older ssd could deliver, sata interfaces on those SoCs aren't the fastest either (if available at all)
[02:12:09] <lukas2511> from what i read those clusters can perform great at specific or extremely parallel workloads at a lower power draw than a comparable x86 system, but not really for unoptimized buildsystems of large software
[02:15:10] <orzo> a website said the case of the olimex teres-i is 3d-printable. Do they actually make STL or similar 3d print data available? Or did "3d printable" simply mean made of plastic?
[02:22:12] <lukas2511> don't quote me on this, but i think the current case is not yet open-source/3d-printable but they are working on a newer 3d-printable version
[02:26:26] <orzo> That sounds a lot like "someday, maybe never" to me
[02:26:30] <orzo> probably never
[02:26:52] <orzo> did you buy an openmoko when it came out?
[02:27:25] <lukas2511> source: https://olimex.wordpress.com/2018/01/19/teres-i-diy-open-source-hardware-modular-hackers-laptop-update/
[02:27:36] <lukas2511> see "PLASTICS"
[02:27:50] <orzo> i want a hackable machine and i've done some hardware hacking,but i'm really a novice and don't really want too much forced on me
[02:28:49] <orzo> i saw that link, but i don't see any link to the design anywhere and even failed to find it using the author's name in web search
[02:32:52] <lukas2511> well, i'm not sure, the "too much forced" part is quite complicated. for a certain form-factor you are limited on what you can do, certain parts are just too bug, machinery or design-work to expensive and you have to find a sweet-point where the product you are building is open in most parts but still at an interesting price-point without making loss
[02:33:56] <lukas2511> i can totally understand that olimex went with the design of a chinese company, they are bound to that manufacturer for a while, but it's probably a lot cheaper than spending a lot of hours on designing a case and having it custom-manifactured
[02:34:30] <lukas2511> especially for something which essentially always was a side-project
[02:36:10] <lukas2511> and just to make it clear: they probably can't release those design files because they might not even have a copy of those files.
[02:37:44] <orzo> i'm not meaning to imply they're acting in bad faith or something, I just want a realistic picture and not hype. The 3d-printable thing is clearly pure hype
[02:38:43] <lukas2511> i mean, they just mentioned it in a single sentence in the middle of a big post, and i guess it's their goal to make it as open as possible, but since it's a side-project it takes time
[02:38:52] <lukas2511> for now the product is as-is
[02:43:15] <lukas2511> i'm mostly interested in possible future add-ons like a built-in logic-analyzer, but until i see any of those getting available i'm not buying the teres, it would just be a slow(ish) laptop
[02:49:26] <orzo> wikipedia mentions "via openbook" laptop case design was supposedly released. It's probalby not very printable, but it's open
[02:49:54] <orzo> maybe it can be adapted for teres hardware
[02:51:20] <orzo> https://github.com/fincham/via-openbook
[10:33:35] <leon-anavi> morning
IRC #olimex 2018-05-21
[00:52:42] <orzo> Hey, I'm thinking about getting an olimex DIY laptop, but it is concerning to me that the user manual link and a few other github links are 404 at https://www.olimex.com/Products/DIY-Laptop/KITS/TERES-A64-WHITE/open-source-hardware[00:52:49] <orzo> what gives?
[01:03:57] <orzo> fatal: repository 'https://github.com/OLIMEX/' not found
[01:04:12] <orzo> that's what it says when i try to clone the github link in the topic of this channel
[01:04:45] <dddddd> https://github.com/OLIMEX/DIY-LAPTOP/tree/master/doc/manuals
[01:06:38] <orzo> thanks
[01:06:54] <orzo> are you with the company? somebody should fix their links
[01:08:01] <dddddd> you're welcome
[01:08:05] <dddddd> no
[01:11:10] <orzo> Do you use a teres-I ?
[01:11:26] <orzo> Is there anyway to get it with more RAM? I would want to run a debian flavor
[01:15:52] <dddddd> I don't think you can put more RAM easily. Also, I think there's a 3GiB limit because the SoC. Yeah, I have one.
[01:16:44] <dddddd> Check the forum for some debian images.
[01:22:11] <orzo> how about ethernet
[01:22:22] <orzo> would that be easier?
[01:24:11] <orzo> a review said the keyboard is cramped, I use an x201 thinkpad regularly and the keyboard is comfortable
[01:24:11] <dddddd> I used some USB ethernet device
[01:24:22] <orzo> how do you find the keyboard?
[01:24:41] <dddddd> I don't use it a lot, but feels fine
[01:30:12] <orzo> "There's even 802.11n Wi-Fi, which has me questioning what decade it is."
[01:30:38] <orzo> why would a reviewer say this? Isn't 802.11n newer than a/b/g which are still the most common wifi
[01:31:10] <orzo> Is he confused or am I?
[01:35:15] <lukas2511> he wants 802.11ac
[01:47:56] <orzo> a commenter on slashdot thinks this device is more trustworthy (than say a thinkpad) because of intel managment engine and other mysterious blobs
[01:48:00] <orzo> i tend to agree
[01:48:27] <orzo> but i want a secure machine for compiling. Compiling on this would be pretty slow. Does anybody use it for dev?
[01:56:05] <lukas2511> well, it's definitively a lot slower than something like a core-i5 processor
[01:56:55] <lukas2511> "use it for dev" kinds depends, i mean if you are a web-dev or are building small programs or whatever it's probably more than good enough
[01:57:08] <lukas2511> but if you want to compile a linux kernel on it... well... don't.
[01:58:27] <lukas2511> if you never used a system like this, you can kinda compare it to a modern(ish) android phone
[02:05:23] <orzo> well, i was thinking, linux kernel, and most large projects are modular and the builds are parallizable, so just throwing more hardware at it might make it decent enough
[02:06:55] <lukas2511> well, for a full build there are dependencies which have to be build in a specific order and those might slow your build a lot, even a big cluster wouldn't change that
[02:09:26] <lukas2511> also storage is often slower with those systems, even emmc stuff can't really hold up with something even an older ssd could deliver, sata interfaces on those SoCs aren't the fastest either (if available at all)
[02:12:09] <lukas2511> from what i read those clusters can perform great at specific or extremely parallel workloads at a lower power draw than a comparable x86 system, but not really for unoptimized buildsystems of large software
[02:15:10] <orzo> a website said the case of the olimex teres-i is 3d-printable. Do they actually make STL or similar 3d print data available? Or did "3d printable" simply mean made of plastic?
[02:22:12] <lukas2511> don't quote me on this, but i think the current case is not yet open-source/3d-printable but they are working on a newer 3d-printable version
[02:26:26] <orzo> That sounds a lot like "someday, maybe never" to me
[02:26:30] <orzo> probably never
[02:26:52] <orzo> did you buy an openmoko when it came out?
[02:27:25] <lukas2511> source: https://olimex.wordpress.com/2018/01/19/teres-i-diy-open-source-hardware-modular-hackers-laptop-update/
[02:27:36] <lukas2511> see "PLASTICS"
[02:27:50] <orzo> i want a hackable machine and i've done some hardware hacking,but i'm really a novice and don't really want too much forced on me
[02:28:49] <orzo> i saw that link, but i don't see any link to the design anywhere and even failed to find it using the author's name in web search
[02:32:52] <lukas2511> well, i'm not sure, the "too much forced" part is quite complicated. for a certain form-factor you are limited on what you can do, certain parts are just too bug, machinery or design-work to expensive and you have to find a sweet-point where the product you are building is open in most parts but still at an interesting price-point without making loss
[02:33:56] <lukas2511> i can totally understand that olimex went with the design of a chinese company, they are bound to that manufacturer for a while, but it's probably a lot cheaper than spending a lot of hours on designing a case and having it custom-manifactured
[02:34:30] <lukas2511> especially for something which essentially always was a side-project
[02:36:10] <lukas2511> and just to make it clear: they probably can't release those design files because they might not even have a copy of those files.
[02:37:44] <orzo> i'm not meaning to imply they're acting in bad faith or something, I just want a realistic picture and not hype. The 3d-printable thing is clearly pure hype
[02:38:43] <lukas2511> i mean, they just mentioned it in a single sentence in the middle of a big post, and i guess it's their goal to make it as open as possible, but since it's a side-project it takes time
[02:38:52] <lukas2511> for now the product is as-is
[02:43:15] <lukas2511> i'm mostly interested in possible future add-ons like a built-in logic-analyzer, but until i see any of those getting available i'm not buying the teres, it would just be a slow(ish) laptop
[02:49:26] <orzo> wikipedia mentions "via openbook" laptop case design was supposedly released. It's probalby not very printable, but it's open
[02:49:54] <orzo> maybe it can be adapted for teres hardware
[02:51:20] <orzo> https://github.com/fincham/via-openbook
[10:33:35] <leon-anavi> morning
