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[10:16:09] <leon-anavi> hi
[14:33:56] <adj__> dgp, https://linux-sunxi.org/Allwinner_SoC_Family
[14:39:37] <adj__> I understand that the difference between V3 and V3s is packaging
[14:41:21] <adj__> I'm also interested in V3s, is it the only non-BGA SOC with integrated DRAM capable of running Linux?
[14:52:06] <dgp> adj__: RZ/1 parts can run linux if you want to spend $40 and can do everything in 10MB ;)
[14:52:40] <dgp> adj__: I asked the usual sources if they can get me some "allwinner v3s" and they all said they need a part number :/
[15:11:12] <adj__> dgp, isn't the part number in the link I wrote?
[15:11:39] <adj__> sun8iw8p1
[15:17:04] <dgp> adj__: that's the code name not a part number that can be ordered as far as I know
[16:33:05] <lukas2511> https://aliexpress.com/item/-/32809167494.html ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[16:40:25] <leon-anavi> lukas2511 :) this cpu is not easy to solder manually with a soldering iron ;)
[16:41:39] <lukas2511> doesn't even look that hard to solder
[16:42:05] <leon-anavi> what's the physical size?
[16:42:51] <leon-anavi> never played with eLQFP package
[16:47:58] <lukas2511> i think that's around 14x14mm
[16:49:16] <lukas2511> i wouldn't like to solder a ton of these by hand, but it's not that hard
[16:51:23] <dgp> lukas2511: that's expensive. Hence wanting the orderable part number to order from a broker instead
[16:52:25] <dgp> and a chip like that isn't hard to solder. As long as you get it aligned well it's just a process of big tip + lots of flux
[16:53:03] <lukas2511> doesn't even seem thaat expensive, not sure how much that stuff costs normally but with that you have the pmic, your soc and you don't need to buy memory, so for me it looks quite cheap
[16:54:15] <dgp> h2 based orange pi with 256mb of memory is $6.99 .. if the raw parts for something based on the v3s cost more than that there's little point using the v3s
[16:55:05] <lukas2511> mhkay, good point.
[16:55:38] <dgp> I'm looking to make something with a v3s + spi flash + wifi for ~$5 :)
[16:55:47] <lukas2511> http://hackaday.com/2017/04/11/10-orange-pi-2g-iot-released-to-compete-with-pi-zero-w/ these tiny boards get more interesting every day..
[16:57:25] <dgp> A decent (not esp) microcontroller wifi module for IoT products is ~$5 in volume. We're getting pretty close to having a decent linux platform for that sort of money :D
[16:59:41] <lukas2511> i'm hoping for something like that orange pi 2g board but with at 3G or LTE connection, wifi, and 2+ usb ports
[17:00:38] <dgp> 3g/lte modems are still pretty expensive.
[17:02:15] <lukas2511> olimex is selling MOD-USB3G for 15€, even if the final board would cost ~20€ it would be a lot more compact and cheaper than the current solution of a lime2 with mod-usb3g and an gpio adapter because of the fine pitched connectors
[19:04:00] <adj__> lukas2511, dgp: yes, it's easily found in aliexpress and taobao
[19:05:11] <adj__> leon-anavi-cloud, it's 14x14x1.4 0.4 pitch
[19:05:31] <adj__> not easy to solder with an iron, but not so difficult with practice
[19:05:43] <adj__> easier in my opinion with hot air
[19:06:53] <lukas2511> flooding it with solder and flux and wigging additional solder up worked really great for the few times i had to solder something like this
[19:07:08] <adj__> dgp, v3s + power chip for 6.56 in 2 part lot is inexpensive in my opinion
[19:08:57] <adj__> the bigest advantage in my opinion is not that it's easy to solder, but easy to route in a two layer board
[19:09:28] <dgp> adj__: yeah I'm thinking that too. Not routing so much but 2 layer boards are dirt cheap
[19:09:31] <adj__> bga with external ddr is really hard to route and with 4 layer at a minimum
[19:09:53] <dgp> but if I can go and buy a bunch of pre-made boards for almost the same price it's less interesting
[19:11:01] <adj__> buying commercial high production boards is always cheaper than building them yourself
[19:11:20] <adj__> dgp, ^
[19:11:35] <dgp> yeah of course but I can buy the quad core H3 for about the same money in one quantity
[19:12:11] <adj__> Chinese whateverPi boards are so cheap that from cost point of view doesn't make sense making yourself
[19:13:39] <dgp> yeah. It should be possible to produce a v3s board with wifi and spi flash for less than the orangepi etc
[19:14:12] <dgp> It might be more expensive for prototypes but if the pricing for 100s of parts was like $2 or $3 it would be very attractive
[19:15:18] <adj__> weakest point is that 64MB RAM is a bit low
[19:15:29] <dgp> fine for IoT applications
[19:15:55] <dgp> a build root system with musl works pretty well in 10MB of ram with an XIP kernel
[19:16:40] <adj__> yes, far too few for android or desktop, but not bad for embedded applications that are cpu intensive and needs linux with mmu
[19:17:34] <adj__> and it seems that most of the internals is old staff, so it's quite well supported mainstream
[19:18:05] <dgp> support for the v3s just went in but yeah it's mostly the same stuff as every other allwinner part
[19:19:17] <adj__> a64 is in much worst situation
[19:20:21] <dgp> no one buys allwinner stuff for the documentation or their high quality BSP
[19:23:50] <adj__> I was designing a board with freescale i.mx233, but I'm going to change to v3s: on-package ddr, ethernet etc.
[19:24:49] <adj__> for commercial boards I'm very happy with rpi1 and a20 olimex boards
[19:27:04] <dgp> If you come up with a board that is generic enough please put it up on github
[19:30:50] <adj__> of course
IRC #olimex 2017-04-26
[07:42:01] <dgp> Bit of a weird question but: Does anyone know how to get the actual part number for Allwinner parts? I'm trying to order some from a broker and they say they can't find the part just from the Allwinner name "V3S".[10:16:09] <leon-anavi> hi
[14:33:56] <adj__> dgp, https://linux-sunxi.org/Allwinner_SoC_Family
[14:39:37] <adj__> I understand that the difference between V3 and V3s is packaging
[14:41:21] <adj__> I'm also interested in V3s, is it the only non-BGA SOC with integrated DRAM capable of running Linux?
[14:52:06] <dgp> adj__: RZ/1 parts can run linux if you want to spend $40 and can do everything in 10MB ;)
[14:52:40] <dgp> adj__: I asked the usual sources if they can get me some "allwinner v3s" and they all said they need a part number :/
[15:11:12] <adj__> dgp, isn't the part number in the link I wrote?
[15:11:39] <adj__> sun8iw8p1
[15:17:04] <dgp> adj__: that's the code name not a part number that can be ordered as far as I know
[16:33:05] <lukas2511> https://aliexpress.com/item/-/32809167494.html ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[16:40:25] <leon-anavi> lukas2511 :) this cpu is not easy to solder manually with a soldering iron ;)
[16:41:39] <lukas2511> doesn't even look that hard to solder
[16:42:05] <leon-anavi> what's the physical size?
[16:42:51] <leon-anavi> never played with eLQFP package
[16:47:58] <lukas2511> i think that's around 14x14mm
[16:49:16] <lukas2511> i wouldn't like to solder a ton of these by hand, but it's not that hard
[16:51:23] <dgp> lukas2511: that's expensive. Hence wanting the orderable part number to order from a broker instead
[16:52:25] <dgp> and a chip like that isn't hard to solder. As long as you get it aligned well it's just a process of big tip + lots of flux
[16:53:03] <lukas2511> doesn't even seem thaat expensive, not sure how much that stuff costs normally but with that you have the pmic, your soc and you don't need to buy memory, so for me it looks quite cheap
[16:54:15] <dgp> h2 based orange pi with 256mb of memory is $6.99 .. if the raw parts for something based on the v3s cost more than that there's little point using the v3s
[16:55:05] <lukas2511> mhkay, good point.
[16:55:38] <dgp> I'm looking to make something with a v3s + spi flash + wifi for ~$5 :)
[16:55:47] <lukas2511> http://hackaday.com/2017/04/11/10-orange-pi-2g-iot-released-to-compete-with-pi-zero-w/ these tiny boards get more interesting every day..
[16:57:25] <dgp> A decent (not esp) microcontroller wifi module for IoT products is ~$5 in volume. We're getting pretty close to having a decent linux platform for that sort of money :D
[16:59:41] <lukas2511> i'm hoping for something like that orange pi 2g board but with at 3G or LTE connection, wifi, and 2+ usb ports
[17:00:38] <dgp> 3g/lte modems are still pretty expensive.
[17:02:15] <lukas2511> olimex is selling MOD-USB3G for 15€, even if the final board would cost ~20€ it would be a lot more compact and cheaper than the current solution of a lime2 with mod-usb3g and an gpio adapter because of the fine pitched connectors
[19:04:00] <adj__> lukas2511, dgp: yes, it's easily found in aliexpress and taobao
[19:05:11] <adj__> leon-anavi-cloud, it's 14x14x1.4 0.4 pitch
[19:05:31] <adj__> not easy to solder with an iron, but not so difficult with practice
[19:05:43] <adj__> easier in my opinion with hot air
[19:06:53] <lukas2511> flooding it with solder and flux and wigging additional solder up worked really great for the few times i had to solder something like this
[19:07:08] <adj__> dgp, v3s + power chip for 6.56 in 2 part lot is inexpensive in my opinion
[19:08:57] <adj__> the bigest advantage in my opinion is not that it's easy to solder, but easy to route in a two layer board
[19:09:28] <dgp> adj__: yeah I'm thinking that too. Not routing so much but 2 layer boards are dirt cheap
[19:09:31] <adj__> bga with external ddr is really hard to route and with 4 layer at a minimum
[19:09:53] <dgp> but if I can go and buy a bunch of pre-made boards for almost the same price it's less interesting
[19:11:01] <adj__> buying commercial high production boards is always cheaper than building them yourself
[19:11:20] <adj__> dgp, ^
[19:11:35] <dgp> yeah of course but I can buy the quad core H3 for about the same money in one quantity
[19:12:11] <adj__> Chinese whateverPi boards are so cheap that from cost point of view doesn't make sense making yourself
[19:13:39] <dgp> yeah. It should be possible to produce a v3s board with wifi and spi flash for less than the orangepi etc
[19:14:12] <dgp> It might be more expensive for prototypes but if the pricing for 100s of parts was like $2 or $3 it would be very attractive
[19:15:18] <adj__> weakest point is that 64MB RAM is a bit low
[19:15:29] <dgp> fine for IoT applications
[19:15:55] <dgp> a build root system with musl works pretty well in 10MB of ram with an XIP kernel
[19:16:40] <adj__> yes, far too few for android or desktop, but not bad for embedded applications that are cpu intensive and needs linux with mmu
[19:17:34] <adj__> and it seems that most of the internals is old staff, so it's quite well supported mainstream
[19:18:05] <dgp> support for the v3s just went in but yeah it's mostly the same stuff as every other allwinner part
[19:19:17] <adj__> a64 is in much worst situation
[19:20:21] <dgp> no one buys allwinner stuff for the documentation or their high quality BSP
[19:23:50] <adj__> I was designing a board with freescale i.mx233, but I'm going to change to v3s: on-package ddr, ethernet etc.
[19:24:49] <adj__> for commercial boards I'm very happy with rpi1 and a20 olimex boards
[19:27:04] <dgp> If you come up with a board that is generic enough please put it up on github
[19:30:50] <adj__> of course
