≡
[20:24:20] <guest______> can a video card be built with imx233 olinuxino micro board ?
[20:24:47] <guest______> has anyone tried something like this before?
[20:25:07] <lukas2511> what the fuck are you trying to achieve?
[20:30:54] <guest______> why a fucking video card of course :)
[20:31:49] <lukas2511> i mean, nothing stops you from sending an image over the network to a imx233 board and use its video output on a tv or something
[20:32:03] <guest______> how much of the arm core is available for the general user at the assembly level?
[20:32:06] <lukas2511> but it's an application processor, not a graphics core
[20:32:21] <guest______> i'm going towards vga
[20:32:41] <guest______> at least 1024x800
[20:32:53] <guest______> that's the target
[20:32:54] <lukas2511> if you run your own code on it the whole chip, if you are running linux you probably can't run anything realtime the same time
[20:33:49] <guest______> the idea is to run my own code....which will be open of course
[20:34:30] <lukas2511> if you just want to output a vga signal from the board itself that should be relatively easy with gpio
[20:34:46] <lukas2511> maybe the chip even supports vga, no idea
[20:35:21] <guest______> that is why i ask how much of the chip is available to me as far as the name of the registers and their functions....untill microchip fixes that damn pic32mz of theirs
[20:36:04] <guest______> i don't need it to support vga...with the info available on the net i can crank up the code for that
[20:36:25] <lukas2511> you can control the whole chip, at least everything that is actually possible to do, you just need to know how
[20:37:17] <guest______> is there a datasheet for that lukas?
[20:37:36] <lukas2511> well this one would be a good start http://www.freescale.com/files/dsp/doc/ref_manual/IMX23RM.pdf
[20:39:19] <guest______> is there an IDE preferably for linux that can load code into the chip?
[20:39:45] <guest______> i would like to dive slowly into this
[20:40:25] <lukas2511> i don't know, i don't use IDEs, but everything that can compile ASM and/or C for ARM926EJ-S should work
[20:40:39] <lukas2511> you'd probably also want a jtag adapter or similar for debugging
[20:41:25] <guest______> allready thought about it
[20:41:52] <guest______> i am not going to put more than 100 euros into the project
[20:42:45] <guest______> too bad olimex doesnt make pci blank test boards ...would be alot easier to order
[20:43:22] <lukas2511> pci? for that you'd probably need an fpga
[20:43:28] <guest______> oh....i forgot to mention i will be using pci in the final stage
[20:43:45] <lukas2511> (and more than 100€)
[20:44:20] <guest______> eeh...200...but that's final :|
[20:44:39] <lukas2511> imx233 will probably not work as a pci device, iirc timing is critical for such applications, and an application processor just isn't designed for such a job
[20:44:55] <guest______> i alleady read some of the pci sig's pci specs
[20:45:17] <guest______> i have to start from somewere
[20:46:20] <guest______> and no i am NOT going towards fpga
[20:46:58] <guest______> the final product musn't cost more than 50 or 100 euros
[20:47:02] <lukas2511> i think fpga is what you want if you want to develop pci or pci-e devices
[20:48:04] <guest______> no lukas those are expensive...no one is going to afford buying it or the parts to build by him/erself
[20:49:04] <guest______> even 100 euros is too much b ut hey...a full fledged opensource video card....worth dreaming about it eh? :)
[20:49:51] <lukas2511> i mean, even if you get the timing to work correctly with a generic application processor (which i doubt is possible), you still need to develop a gpu, that is running on the same chip
[20:49:56] <guest______> 454mhz should be enough if using two boards in parallel somehow...did anyone thought abot that?
[20:49:57] <lukas2511> i just don't see this working
[20:50:12] <lukas2511> ?!?
[20:50:28] <lukas2511> you still need to get data from one chip to another if you use 2
[20:51:15] <lukas2511> with crazy dma tricks and a 32 line + clock parallel bus you might not loose too much time for that, but at least some
[20:52:32] <lukas2511> okay pci is just 33.33 MHz, it may be possible
[20:53:01] <guest______> i thought about some high speed parallel to serial ic to do the job...the parts needed...are scarce in my part of town or obsolete so...yeah it will be kind of hard
[20:53:26] <guest______> lukas...i never targeted agp or pci-e :)))
[20:54:26] <lukas2511> i mean, a few years of work, and you could probably get it to output a simple framebuffer
[20:55:04] <lukas2511> hardware cost with just imx233 would be kinda low
[20:55:08] <guest______> so if i am going to buy a board or two will i find support from you guys here? that was the thing i wanted to ask...but first i brushed my path just a little :)
[20:55:17] <lukas2511> i don't think you'll find much support here
[20:56:06] <lukas2511> only a few people here actually respond to questions, and most are only linux people i guess
[20:56:31] <lukas2511> guess you need to look for a different channel for support for your project
[20:56:32] <guest______> not even for the promise of an open source video card...and no i can not give cookies...only the darkside gives those :|
[20:56:57] <lukas2511> we can't do much other than pointing at datasheets
[20:57:08] <guest______> but what is the main purpose of this channel ...just to know in the future if i may ask
[20:57:16] <lukas2511> i don't think anybody here wants to read a 1000+ pages doc for you ;)
[20:57:17] <guest______> aah
[20:57:31] <guest______> i didn't mean to say that
[20:57:34] <lukas2511> the main purpose of this channel... uh
[20:57:39] <guest______> i'l do the reading
[20:57:50] <lukas2511> it exists.. and.. sometimes people do write questions and get answers, or don't... uh
[20:58:04] <lukas2511> mostly community-support for linux on olimex boards
[20:59:01] <guest______> but i am going to buy an olimex board for the project...and probably that jtag programmer...whic is NOT open source by the way
[20:59:42] <guest______> so probably i will fiddle with linux at first but after that i will have to dive in the assembly
[21:00:49] <guest______> the purpose of the project is that after it's completion...no one has to read that datasheet to make it work
[21:01:27] <lukas2511> actually you can start experimenting with an emulator like qemu
[21:01:44] <lukas2511> select the ARM926EJ-S as cpu and throw your compiled code against qemu
[21:02:00] <lukas2511> probably an easier start than running it on the board from the beginning
[21:02:18] <guest______> how much do you know about the imx233 at the linux level...i will definitely need soomeone to so i can start the board....you know...hello world and blinking led stuff
[21:03:14] <guest______> yes that would be a good start.....thank you
[21:03:38] <lukas2511> there isn't much very specific to know about this board on linux level
[21:04:02] <lukas2511> it's basically the same on all arm boards, most of the times just the bootloader differs
[21:05:29] <guest______> yeah but this one allows assebly...not like other arm based cpus
[21:05:47] <lukas2511> which don't allow that?
[21:06:36] <guest______> for the general user that doesn't want the NDA hussle
[21:06:59] <guest______> you know jail shit and all that matter
[21:07:16] <guest______> olinuxino a20 for example
[21:07:44] <lukas2511> i don't think anything stops you from running your own code on A20
[21:08:09] <guest______> in assembly?
[21:08:14] <lukas2511> yes
[21:08:30] <guest______> for real?...since when?
[21:08:53] <lukas2511> what would stop you? uboot (the bootloader used for loading linux on the board) is nothing else than a mix of asm and c
[21:09:39] <lukas2511> there might be some high security chips, that only allow signed code, but i guess you won't find any of those with burned fuses on a developement board
[21:09:44] <lukas2511> only in final products
[21:09:52] <lukas2511> like game consoles and stuff
[21:10:12] <lukas2511> and even on those you can run your own code, you just need to find a different entrypoint
[21:10:55] <guest______> some bloatware executables are present for some proprietary functions
[21:11:19] <lukas2511> i think for A20 only the gpu needs a binary blob
[21:11:37] <lukas2511> and yes, there are some SoCs that have special features that need blobs
[21:11:40] <guest______> and i dont like to have parts of the chip that i can not use at full potential like that mali 400 which is inside the thing
[21:12:34] <guest______> that is why i have chosen the imx233 for now untill i will find something better
[21:14:36] <guest______> then it's settled i will buy the board...or the boards to be more precise
[21:16:05] <lukas2511> okay, have fun, i guess.. ;)
[21:17:44] <guest______> i will share the fun,,,,,believe me :)))
[21:18:10] <lukas2511> can only give you some additional recommendations
[21:18:27] <guest______> i'm listening
[21:19:39] <lukas2511> keep code in git (or similar), good structure in code is important or i guarantee you you'll run into problems with your own code at some point, comment your code, don't over-comment your code (like, don't comment every single line, comment blocks on what they are doing, highlighting some special stuff)
[21:20:36] <lukas2511> this will help you to understand your own code over time, and also help others reading your code if you want to opensource it
[21:21:54] <guest______> i'm still thinking about overcommenting....probably i will complete that with video tutorials
[21:22:21] <lukas2511> i personally hate video tutorials
[21:22:50] <lukas2511> nothing is better than a good text documentation
[21:22:55] <guest______> i allways over comment my code...so i have to do some tradeoffs
[21:58:17] <neofreak> hi
[21:58:29] <neofreak> anyone tried A20-OLinuXino-MICRO Debian with kernel 3.4.90+ release 10
[21:58:31] <neofreak> ?
[21:58:43] <neofreak> I cant for the life of me resize the sd card. Parted crashes.
[21:58:50] <neofreak> the card boots and works fine
[21:58:53] <neofreak> i just cant resize it
[21:58:59] <neofreak> no idea why :\
IRC #olimex 2015-05-21
[20:23:02] <guest______> hi[20:24:20] <guest______> can a video card be built with imx233 olinuxino micro board ?
[20:24:47] <guest______> has anyone tried something like this before?
[20:25:07] <lukas2511> what the fuck are you trying to achieve?
[20:30:54] <guest______> why a fucking video card of course :)
[20:31:49] <lukas2511> i mean, nothing stops you from sending an image over the network to a imx233 board and use its video output on a tv or something
[20:32:03] <guest______> how much of the arm core is available for the general user at the assembly level?
[20:32:06] <lukas2511> but it's an application processor, not a graphics core
[20:32:21] <guest______> i'm going towards vga
[20:32:41] <guest______> at least 1024x800
[20:32:53] <guest______> that's the target
[20:32:54] <lukas2511> if you run your own code on it the whole chip, if you are running linux you probably can't run anything realtime the same time
[20:33:49] <guest______> the idea is to run my own code....which will be open of course
[20:34:30] <lukas2511> if you just want to output a vga signal from the board itself that should be relatively easy with gpio
[20:34:46] <lukas2511> maybe the chip even supports vga, no idea
[20:35:21] <guest______> that is why i ask how much of the chip is available to me as far as the name of the registers and their functions....untill microchip fixes that damn pic32mz of theirs
[20:36:04] <guest______> i don't need it to support vga...with the info available on the net i can crank up the code for that
[20:36:25] <lukas2511> you can control the whole chip, at least everything that is actually possible to do, you just need to know how
[20:37:17] <guest______> is there a datasheet for that lukas?
[20:37:36] <lukas2511> well this one would be a good start http://www.freescale.com/files/dsp/doc/ref_manual/IMX23RM.pdf
[20:39:19] <guest______> is there an IDE preferably for linux that can load code into the chip?
[20:39:45] <guest______> i would like to dive slowly into this
[20:40:25] <lukas2511> i don't know, i don't use IDEs, but everything that can compile ASM and/or C for ARM926EJ-S should work
[20:40:39] <lukas2511> you'd probably also want a jtag adapter or similar for debugging
[20:41:25] <guest______> allready thought about it
[20:41:52] <guest______> i am not going to put more than 100 euros into the project
[20:42:45] <guest______> too bad olimex doesnt make pci blank test boards ...would be alot easier to order
[20:43:22] <lukas2511> pci? for that you'd probably need an fpga
[20:43:28] <guest______> oh....i forgot to mention i will be using pci in the final stage
[20:43:45] <lukas2511> (and more than 100€)
[20:44:20] <guest______> eeh...200...but that's final :|
[20:44:39] <lukas2511> imx233 will probably not work as a pci device, iirc timing is critical for such applications, and an application processor just isn't designed for such a job
[20:44:55] <guest______> i alleady read some of the pci sig's pci specs
[20:45:17] <guest______> i have to start from somewere
[20:46:20] <guest______> and no i am NOT going towards fpga
[20:46:58] <guest______> the final product musn't cost more than 50 or 100 euros
[20:47:02] <lukas2511> i think fpga is what you want if you want to develop pci or pci-e devices
[20:48:04] <guest______> no lukas those are expensive...no one is going to afford buying it or the parts to build by him/erself
[20:49:04] <guest______> even 100 euros is too much b ut hey...a full fledged opensource video card....worth dreaming about it eh? :)
[20:49:51] <lukas2511> i mean, even if you get the timing to work correctly with a generic application processor (which i doubt is possible), you still need to develop a gpu, that is running on the same chip
[20:49:56] <guest______> 454mhz should be enough if using two boards in parallel somehow...did anyone thought abot that?
[20:49:57] <lukas2511> i just don't see this working
[20:50:12] <lukas2511> ?!?
[20:50:28] <lukas2511> you still need to get data from one chip to another if you use 2
[20:51:15] <lukas2511> with crazy dma tricks and a 32 line + clock parallel bus you might not loose too much time for that, but at least some
[20:52:32] <lukas2511> okay pci is just 33.33 MHz, it may be possible
[20:53:01] <guest______> i thought about some high speed parallel to serial ic to do the job...the parts needed...are scarce in my part of town or obsolete so...yeah it will be kind of hard
[20:53:26] <guest______> lukas...i never targeted agp or pci-e :)))
[20:54:26] <lukas2511> i mean, a few years of work, and you could probably get it to output a simple framebuffer
[20:55:04] <lukas2511> hardware cost with just imx233 would be kinda low
[20:55:08] <guest______> so if i am going to buy a board or two will i find support from you guys here? that was the thing i wanted to ask...but first i brushed my path just a little :)
[20:55:17] <lukas2511> i don't think you'll find much support here
[20:56:06] <lukas2511> only a few people here actually respond to questions, and most are only linux people i guess
[20:56:31] <lukas2511> guess you need to look for a different channel for support for your project
[20:56:32] <guest______> not even for the promise of an open source video card...and no i can not give cookies...only the darkside gives those :|
[20:56:57] <lukas2511> we can't do much other than pointing at datasheets
[20:57:08] <guest______> but what is the main purpose of this channel ...just to know in the future if i may ask
[20:57:16] <lukas2511> i don't think anybody here wants to read a 1000+ pages doc for you ;)
[20:57:17] <guest______> aah
[20:57:31] <guest______> i didn't mean to say that
[20:57:34] <lukas2511> the main purpose of this channel... uh
[20:57:39] <guest______> i'l do the reading
[20:57:50] <lukas2511> it exists.. and.. sometimes people do write questions and get answers, or don't... uh
[20:58:04] <lukas2511> mostly community-support for linux on olimex boards
[20:59:01] <guest______> but i am going to buy an olimex board for the project...and probably that jtag programmer...whic is NOT open source by the way
[20:59:42] <guest______> so probably i will fiddle with linux at first but after that i will have to dive in the assembly
[21:00:49] <guest______> the purpose of the project is that after it's completion...no one has to read that datasheet to make it work
[21:01:27] <lukas2511> actually you can start experimenting with an emulator like qemu
[21:01:44] <lukas2511> select the ARM926EJ-S as cpu and throw your compiled code against qemu
[21:02:00] <lukas2511> probably an easier start than running it on the board from the beginning
[21:02:18] <guest______> how much do you know about the imx233 at the linux level...i will definitely need soomeone to so i can start the board....you know...hello world and blinking led stuff
[21:03:14] <guest______> yes that would be a good start.....thank you
[21:03:38] <lukas2511> there isn't much very specific to know about this board on linux level
[21:04:02] <lukas2511> it's basically the same on all arm boards, most of the times just the bootloader differs
[21:05:29] <guest______> yeah but this one allows assebly...not like other arm based cpus
[21:05:47] <lukas2511> which don't allow that?
[21:06:36] <guest______> for the general user that doesn't want the NDA hussle
[21:06:59] <guest______> you know jail shit and all that matter
[21:07:16] <guest______> olinuxino a20 for example
[21:07:44] <lukas2511> i don't think anything stops you from running your own code on A20
[21:08:09] <guest______> in assembly?
[21:08:14] <lukas2511> yes
[21:08:30] <guest______> for real?...since when?
[21:08:53] <lukas2511> what would stop you? uboot (the bootloader used for loading linux on the board) is nothing else than a mix of asm and c
[21:09:39] <lukas2511> there might be some high security chips, that only allow signed code, but i guess you won't find any of those with burned fuses on a developement board
[21:09:44] <lukas2511> only in final products
[21:09:52] <lukas2511> like game consoles and stuff
[21:10:12] <lukas2511> and even on those you can run your own code, you just need to find a different entrypoint
[21:10:55] <guest______> some bloatware executables are present for some proprietary functions
[21:11:19] <lukas2511> i think for A20 only the gpu needs a binary blob
[21:11:37] <lukas2511> and yes, there are some SoCs that have special features that need blobs
[21:11:40] <guest______> and i dont like to have parts of the chip that i can not use at full potential like that mali 400 which is inside the thing
[21:12:34] <guest______> that is why i have chosen the imx233 for now untill i will find something better
[21:14:36] <guest______> then it's settled i will buy the board...or the boards to be more precise
[21:16:05] <lukas2511> okay, have fun, i guess.. ;)
[21:17:44] <guest______> i will share the fun,,,,,believe me :)))
[21:18:10] <lukas2511> can only give you some additional recommendations
[21:18:27] <guest______> i'm listening
[21:19:39] <lukas2511> keep code in git (or similar), good structure in code is important or i guarantee you you'll run into problems with your own code at some point, comment your code, don't over-comment your code (like, don't comment every single line, comment blocks on what they are doing, highlighting some special stuff)
[21:20:36] <lukas2511> this will help you to understand your own code over time, and also help others reading your code if you want to opensource it
[21:21:54] <guest______> i'm still thinking about overcommenting....probably i will complete that with video tutorials
[21:22:21] <lukas2511> i personally hate video tutorials
[21:22:50] <lukas2511> nothing is better than a good text documentation
[21:22:55] <guest______> i allways over comment my code...so i have to do some tradeoffs
[21:58:17] <neofreak> hi
[21:58:29] <neofreak> anyone tried A20-OLinuXino-MICRO Debian with kernel 3.4.90+ release 10
[21:58:31] <neofreak> ?
[21:58:43] <neofreak> I cant for the life of me resize the sd card. Parted crashes.
[21:58:50] <neofreak> the card boots and works fine
[21:58:53] <neofreak> i just cant resize it
[21:58:59] <neofreak> no idea why :\
