≡
[01:53:26] <Turl> lanodan: it doesn't run on your CPU and you don't need to load it to the drive either, so no blobs are needed
[02:03:05] <lanodan> Turl: Try to flash your HDD
[02:03:48] <lanodan> Firmware attacks are the worst MITM
[02:05:18] <lanodan> There is firmware too in an µSD cards: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3554
[02:05:32] <lanodan> -n
[02:09:25] <Turl> lanodan: yeah, you can make that point, but the disk is isolated
[02:10:04] <lanodan> isolated from what ? It’s were you have tons of data…
[02:10:45] <Turl> and if the firmware were to be in a ROM even the FSF would be happy with it :)
[02:11:12] <Turl> lanodan: sure, say it can read your data, then what? It doesn't have networking capabilities or anything
[02:11:34] <Turl> it only talks SATA
[02:12:29] <lanodan> You can have a fucking antenna in almost no space and almost nobody knows how a drive works
[02:13:04] <Turl> lanodan: you need an OSHW drive then, not an "open source" one
[02:13:07] <lanodan> (apart from disk, heads, …)
[02:13:20] <Turl> lanodan: they could be backdoored on the chip for what it's worth, even with OS dirmware
[02:13:23] <Turl> firmware*
[02:13:28] <lanodan> Yes, but OSHW drives doesn’t exist ;/
[02:13:40] <Turl> OS firmwares don't either
[02:13:48] <lanodan> Or at least I don’t know about one
[02:13:58] <Turl> lanodan: in any case, use full disk encryption and all this talk is moot
[02:14:09] <Turl> as the drive will only see crypto garbage :)
[02:14:42] <Xark> ACTION uses paper-tape so he can visually inspect each bit for security. :)
[02:15:22] <lukas2511> your paper cost must be rather high
[02:15:23] <lanodan> Xark: haha, what about speed/cost/reliability? ;D
[02:15:50] <Xark> lanodan: Not so great. :) But I get all this free confetti. :)
[02:15:54] <lanodan> Oh found a project for SSD drives http://www.openssd-project.org/wiki/The_OpenSSD_Project
[02:16:18] <lanodan> Xark: Strange way of defining « free »
[02:16:56] <lanodan> Damn korean document
[02:17:09] <lanodan> *Damn,
[02:18:26] <lanodan> Uh this is *not* a SSD http://www.openssd-project.org/wiki/Cosmos_OpenSSD_Platform
[02:20:03] <lukas2511> mh?
[02:22:11] <lukas2511> it has nand flash interfaces, and can probably somehow work as pci-e device, with the right "firmware" it could be an ssd
[02:22:27] <lukas2511> and it would probably come at the low cost of 9000$ for 4GB or so
[02:30:08] <lanodan> It’s more like a complete computer than a SSD
[02:31:13] <lukas2511> an ssd kinda is a computer
[02:34:31] <adj_> Turl, you said that the hdd is isolated because it can only talk SATA, that's not true, as the software loads from the hdd, it has access to everyting in the computer
[02:34:57] <adj_> and of course, it has your data
[02:35:25] <adj_> and this days, hdd firmware is upgradeable
[02:37:04] <adj_> using full disk encryption doesn't work, as the kernel loads from the hdd, it can load a malware kernel or boot code that ask the user for the encryption key
[02:38:34] <adj_> only solution is to don't load kernel space or software as root from any non secure drive
[02:39:07] <adj_> any code, in fact
[02:41:14] <lanodan> adj_: You can load the kernel on the nand
[02:42:52] <lukas2511> type in kernel by hand
[02:42:58] <lanodan> damn I think I’ll need the little red thing (PCB+compoments) we see here https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A20/A20-LCD15.6/images/A20-LCD15.6-2.jpg
[02:43:49] <adj_> lukas2511, and for the other code? don't load any code from hdd/ssd?
[02:44:00] <adj_> or sd card?
[02:44:23] <lukas2511> after you have typed in the kernel manually you have trusted code running that can use encrypted data from an untrusted drive
[02:45:05] <lanodan> Maybe just use external(hdd/ssd/sd/…) for data like images/videos/… and keep your NAND for binairies and source code
[02:45:37] <adj_> lukas2511, you are right
[16:24:22] **************** Logging Ended ****************
[16:24:32] **************** Logging Started ****************
[18:07:59] <viccuad> People, does the Olinuxino Limes share a usb bus for ethernet?
[18:08:29] <viccuad> can't find the info on the internet, yet looking at photos of the board I think I see a dedicated ethernet controller
[18:09:26] <lukas2511> ehternet is a dedicated chipset, connected via emac on lime1 and gmac on lime2
[18:10:39] <viccuad> lukas2511: thanks
[20:42:45] <lanodan> He, is there connector for LIME2 LCD-CON to LVDS ? ()
[20:43:12] <lanodan> *(or tutorial, wiring, …)
[23:50:16] <neofreak> hi
[23:50:30] <neofreak> the download link for PhoenixSuit in the wiki for the A20 Micro is broken :(
[23:50:32] <neofreak> https://www.olimex.com/wiki/A20-OLinuXino-MICRO
[23:50:38] <neofreak> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7WHuNCASY8caWRNUy00VUszbDg/edit?usp=sharing
IRC #olimex 2015-05-16
[01:37:27] <lanodan> Turl: What about the firmware ?[01:53:26] <Turl> lanodan: it doesn't run on your CPU and you don't need to load it to the drive either, so no blobs are needed
[02:03:05] <lanodan> Turl: Try to flash your HDD
[02:03:48] <lanodan> Firmware attacks are the worst MITM
[02:05:18] <lanodan> There is firmware too in an µSD cards: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=3554
[02:05:32] <lanodan> -n
[02:09:25] <Turl> lanodan: yeah, you can make that point, but the disk is isolated
[02:10:04] <lanodan> isolated from what ? It’s were you have tons of data…
[02:10:45] <Turl> and if the firmware were to be in a ROM even the FSF would be happy with it :)
[02:11:12] <Turl> lanodan: sure, say it can read your data, then what? It doesn't have networking capabilities or anything
[02:11:34] <Turl> it only talks SATA
[02:12:29] <lanodan> You can have a fucking antenna in almost no space and almost nobody knows how a drive works
[02:13:04] <Turl> lanodan: you need an OSHW drive then, not an "open source" one
[02:13:07] <lanodan> (apart from disk, heads, …)
[02:13:20] <Turl> lanodan: they could be backdoored on the chip for what it's worth, even with OS dirmware
[02:13:23] <Turl> firmware*
[02:13:28] <lanodan> Yes, but OSHW drives doesn’t exist ;/
[02:13:40] <Turl> OS firmwares don't either
[02:13:48] <lanodan> Or at least I don’t know about one
[02:13:58] <Turl> lanodan: in any case, use full disk encryption and all this talk is moot
[02:14:09] <Turl> as the drive will only see crypto garbage :)
[02:14:42] <Xark> ACTION uses paper-tape so he can visually inspect each bit for security. :)
[02:15:22] <lukas2511> your paper cost must be rather high
[02:15:23] <lanodan> Xark: haha, what about speed/cost/reliability? ;D
[02:15:50] <Xark> lanodan: Not so great. :) But I get all this free confetti. :)
[02:15:54] <lanodan> Oh found a project for SSD drives http://www.openssd-project.org/wiki/The_OpenSSD_Project
[02:16:18] <lanodan> Xark: Strange way of defining « free »
[02:16:56] <lanodan> Damn korean document
[02:17:09] <lanodan> *Damn,
[02:18:26] <lanodan> Uh this is *not* a SSD http://www.openssd-project.org/wiki/Cosmos_OpenSSD_Platform
[02:20:03] <lukas2511> mh?
[02:22:11] <lukas2511> it has nand flash interfaces, and can probably somehow work as pci-e device, with the right "firmware" it could be an ssd
[02:22:27] <lukas2511> and it would probably come at the low cost of 9000$ for 4GB or so
[02:30:08] <lanodan> It’s more like a complete computer than a SSD
[02:31:13] <lukas2511> an ssd kinda is a computer
[02:34:31] <adj_> Turl, you said that the hdd is isolated because it can only talk SATA, that's not true, as the software loads from the hdd, it has access to everyting in the computer
[02:34:57] <adj_> and of course, it has your data
[02:35:25] <adj_> and this days, hdd firmware is upgradeable
[02:37:04] <adj_> using full disk encryption doesn't work, as the kernel loads from the hdd, it can load a malware kernel or boot code that ask the user for the encryption key
[02:38:34] <adj_> only solution is to don't load kernel space or software as root from any non secure drive
[02:39:07] <adj_> any code, in fact
[02:41:14] <lanodan> adj_: You can load the kernel on the nand
[02:42:52] <lukas2511> type in kernel by hand
[02:42:58] <lanodan> damn I think I’ll need the little red thing (PCB+compoments) we see here https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A20/A20-LCD15.6/images/A20-LCD15.6-2.jpg
[02:43:49] <adj_> lukas2511, and for the other code? don't load any code from hdd/ssd?
[02:44:00] <adj_> or sd card?
[02:44:23] <lukas2511> after you have typed in the kernel manually you have trusted code running that can use encrypted data from an untrusted drive
[02:45:05] <lanodan> Maybe just use external(hdd/ssd/sd/…) for data like images/videos/… and keep your NAND for binairies and source code
[02:45:37] <adj_> lukas2511, you are right
[16:24:22] **************** Logging Ended ****************
[16:24:32] **************** Logging Started ****************
[18:07:59] <viccuad> People, does the Olinuxino Limes share a usb bus for ethernet?
[18:08:29] <viccuad> can't find the info on the internet, yet looking at photos of the board I think I see a dedicated ethernet controller
[18:09:26] <lukas2511> ehternet is a dedicated chipset, connected via emac on lime1 and gmac on lime2
[18:10:39] <viccuad> lukas2511: thanks
[20:42:45] <lanodan> He, is there connector for LIME2 LCD-CON to LVDS ? ()
[20:43:12] <lanodan> *(or tutorial, wiring, …)
[23:50:16] <neofreak> hi
[23:50:30] <neofreak> the download link for PhoenixSuit in the wiki for the A20 Micro is broken :(
[23:50:32] <neofreak> https://www.olimex.com/wiki/A20-OLinuXino-MICRO
[23:50:38] <neofreak> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7WHuNCASY8caWRNUy00VUszbDg/edit?usp=sharing
