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[18:37:35] <nolash_> could I eg. use something like GRUB on the SD to boot into linux?
[18:48:08] <jo0nas> no non-free blobs are required for booting, no
[18:48:52] <jo0nas> non-free blobs may be required for wifi chips - for boards with wifi
[18:51:04] <jo0nas> nolash_: Broadcom-based (e.g. Raspberry Pi) and Exynos-based boards are particularly nasty - see e.g. the notes I maintain at https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#Unsuitable
[18:53:50] <nolash_> jo0nas thanks!
[18:53:51] <jo0nas> yes, you can boot the boards with fully free software - only using uboot (which is the equivalent of GRUB for ARM boards) and linux
[18:54:01] <nolash_> looks good
[18:54:10] <nolash_> 2GB RAM is max I found?
[18:54:48] <jo0nas> if you compare to modern PC hardware, then beware that memory consumption is less on 32-bit boards
[18:55:35] <jo0nas> ...and that memory consumption may be different even for 64-bit ARM boards compared to 64-bit x86 hardware - depending on the concrete code
[18:56:56] <jo0nas> but yes, cheap ARM boards are built around chips originally targeted phones, which are (historically, at least) less memory hungry than desktop and server systems
[18:57:27] <jo0nas> ...and those used in current offers by Olimex support a maximum of 2GB RAM
[18:58:32] <nolash_> > Be aware that Allwinner is notorious for GPL violations;
[18:58:39] <jo0nas> newer chip designs exist that support more memory while still being cheap (most popular is probably Rockchip chips), but Olimex has no boards based on those
[18:58:44] <nolash_> says FSF
[18:58:57] <jo0nas> *sigh*
[18:59:00] <nolash_> jo0nas gotcha re RAM
[18:59:14] <nolash_> there's no a single good guy out there it seems
[18:59:52] <jo0nas> yes, Allwinner has violated the GPL in the past - for some *code* that they published (a fork of linux) as proof of concept for their chips
[19:00:19] <jo0nas> you should *not* use that old crappy demo code anyway
[19:01:52] <jo0nas> ...but sure, if you care so much about principles of freedom that you want to ban a _hardware_ company for making mistakes with some demo _software_ they published some 10-15 years ago, then feel free to avoid these cheap and Open Source Hardware certified products
[19:02:45] <jo0nas> it is not the guys that are bad, it is the actions
[19:03:19] <nolash_> :)
[19:04:03] <nolash_> olinuxino really looks promising. i think I will give this a spin. thanks!
[19:04:15] <jo0nas> ACTION personally lives in a society where bad actions get punished to certain extend and after that the person behind the actions is no longer punished
[19:04:55] <jo0nas> you're most welcome - please note that I am not a representative of Olimex, but just a happy user
[19:05:16] <jo0nas> (and a developer of the software distribution Debian)
[19:07:10] <jo0nas> nolash_: if you want a stable board to play with, I can recommend LIME2
[19:07:47] <nolash_> LIME2 where do I find it? Open HW too?
[19:08:13] <jo0nas> since it sounds like you are looking at the biggest possible boards: beware that the newer boards are faster and has more memory, but are less well tested and are therefore potentially less stable
[19:08:17] <nolash_> ah ok
[19:08:24] <nolash_> got it
[19:08:39] <nolash_> a good mix of stable and unstable would be fine
[19:08:50] <jo0nas> LIME2 is near the top of my list: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware
[19:09:20] <jo0nas> I guess since you mentioned GRUB that you are new to ARM boards
[19:09:38] <nolash_> >
[19:09:40] <nolash_> Out of stock
[19:09:55] <nolash_> jo0nas: yes I am
[19:10:32] <jo0nas> what is out of stock?
[19:10:36] <nolash_> LIME2
[19:10:39] <jo0nas> where?
[19:10:56] <nolash_> https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/STMP1/STMP157-OLinuXino-LIME2/open-source-hardware
[19:13:16] <jo0nas> oh well - I have no idea how you ended there, but the one I meant (which is what is listed on the list that I shared several times) is the OLinuXino A20 LIME2
[19:13:38] <jo0nas> i.e. not STM32MP157
[19:14:59] <jo0nas> you might find these more specific recommendations of mine helpful: http://box.redpill.dk/hardware.html
[19:16:22] <nolash_> jo0nas: appreciate both the list and recommendations, thanks!
[19:16:52] <jo0nas> you're welcome!
[19:16:58] <jo0nas> enjoy the ride!
[22:12:32] <adjtm> nolash_, STMP1 boards are "out of stock" because they have not been yet released
[22:13:24] <adjtm> to be released soon
[22:16:28] <nolash_> adjtm cool
IRC #olimex 2021-05-14
[18:36:48] <nolash_> hello i was looking at your boards and wonder is there any closed source image required anywhere in boot chain, as is with RBPI?[18:37:35] <nolash_> could I eg. use something like GRUB on the SD to boot into linux?
[18:48:08] <jo0nas> no non-free blobs are required for booting, no
[18:48:52] <jo0nas> non-free blobs may be required for wifi chips - for boards with wifi
[18:51:04] <jo0nas> nolash_: Broadcom-based (e.g. Raspberry Pi) and Exynos-based boards are particularly nasty - see e.g. the notes I maintain at https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware#Unsuitable
[18:53:50] <nolash_> jo0nas thanks!
[18:53:51] <jo0nas> yes, you can boot the boards with fully free software - only using uboot (which is the equivalent of GRUB for ARM boards) and linux
[18:54:01] <nolash_> looks good
[18:54:10] <nolash_> 2GB RAM is max I found?
[18:54:48] <jo0nas> if you compare to modern PC hardware, then beware that memory consumption is less on 32-bit boards
[18:55:35] <jo0nas> ...and that memory consumption may be different even for 64-bit ARM boards compared to 64-bit x86 hardware - depending on the concrete code
[18:56:56] <jo0nas> but yes, cheap ARM boards are built around chips originally targeted phones, which are (historically, at least) less memory hungry than desktop and server systems
[18:57:27] <jo0nas> ...and those used in current offers by Olimex support a maximum of 2GB RAM
[18:58:32] <nolash_> > Be aware that Allwinner is notorious for GPL violations;
[18:58:39] <jo0nas> newer chip designs exist that support more memory while still being cheap (most popular is probably Rockchip chips), but Olimex has no boards based on those
[18:58:44] <nolash_> says FSF
[18:58:57] <jo0nas> *sigh*
[18:59:00] <nolash_> jo0nas gotcha re RAM
[18:59:14] <nolash_> there's no a single good guy out there it seems
[18:59:52] <jo0nas> yes, Allwinner has violated the GPL in the past - for some *code* that they published (a fork of linux) as proof of concept for their chips
[19:00:19] <jo0nas> you should *not* use that old crappy demo code anyway
[19:01:52] <jo0nas> ...but sure, if you care so much about principles of freedom that you want to ban a _hardware_ company for making mistakes with some demo _software_ they published some 10-15 years ago, then feel free to avoid these cheap and Open Source Hardware certified products
[19:02:45] <jo0nas> it is not the guys that are bad, it is the actions
[19:03:19] <nolash_> :)
[19:04:03] <nolash_> olinuxino really looks promising. i think I will give this a spin. thanks!
[19:04:15] <jo0nas> ACTION personally lives in a society where bad actions get punished to certain extend and after that the person behind the actions is no longer punished
[19:04:55] <jo0nas> you're most welcome - please note that I am not a representative of Olimex, but just a happy user
[19:05:16] <jo0nas> (and a developer of the software distribution Debian)
[19:07:10] <jo0nas> nolash_: if you want a stable board to play with, I can recommend LIME2
[19:07:47] <nolash_> LIME2 where do I find it? Open HW too?
[19:08:13] <jo0nas> since it sounds like you are looking at the biggest possible boards: beware that the newer boards are faster and has more memory, but are less well tested and are therefore potentially less stable
[19:08:17] <nolash_> ah ok
[19:08:24] <nolash_> got it
[19:08:39] <nolash_> a good mix of stable and unstable would be fine
[19:08:50] <jo0nas> LIME2 is near the top of my list: https://wiki.debian.org/CheapServerBoxHardware
[19:09:20] <jo0nas> I guess since you mentioned GRUB that you are new to ARM boards
[19:09:38] <nolash_> >
[19:09:40] <nolash_> Out of stock
[19:09:55] <nolash_> jo0nas: yes I am
[19:10:32] <jo0nas> what is out of stock?
[19:10:36] <nolash_> LIME2
[19:10:39] <jo0nas> where?
[19:10:56] <nolash_> https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/STMP1/STMP157-OLinuXino-LIME2/open-source-hardware
[19:13:16] <jo0nas> oh well - I have no idea how you ended there, but the one I meant (which is what is listed on the list that I shared several times) is the OLinuXino A20 LIME2
[19:13:38] <jo0nas> i.e. not STM32MP157
[19:14:59] <jo0nas> you might find these more specific recommendations of mine helpful: http://box.redpill.dk/hardware.html
[19:16:22] <nolash_> jo0nas: appreciate both the list and recommendations, thanks!
[19:16:52] <jo0nas> you're welcome!
[19:16:58] <jo0nas> enjoy the ride!
[22:12:32] <adjtm> nolash_, STMP1 boards are "out of stock" because they have not been yet released
[22:13:24] <adjtm> to be released soon
[22:16:28] <nolash_> adjtm cool
