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[22:56:01] <orbifx> Is it possible to program the NAND memory via USB-OTG?
[22:56:07] <orbifx> on the Lime2
[23:01:12] <lukas2511> yes, but you need a prebuilt image and i think there are only android images available
[23:04:29] <orbifx> what about the ones in arch?
[23:05:08] <orbifx> http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/allwinner/a20-olinuxino-lime2
[23:05:32] <lukas2511> those are not nand-flashable images
[23:05:50] <orbifx> ok, I'll see how i can make some images out of those
[23:07:10] <orbifx> two other questions: 1) My board doesn't seem to have the nand pads connected. The documentation says the they need to be "closed" to be operational. Is that something the purchaser has to do?
[23:07:32] <lukas2511> "nand pads connected"? what do you mean?
[23:07:52] <orbifx> sorted, closed.
[23:08:01] <orbifx> the jumper pads.
[23:08:54] <lukas2511> sorry but atm i really don't know which jumper pads you mean
[23:09:45] <orbifx> https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A20/A20-OLinuXIno-LIME2/resources/A20-OLinuXino-LIME2-UM.pdf
[23:09:56] <orbifx> section 6.11
[23:10:01] <orbifx> NAND_E
[23:10:16] <lukas2511> ah, okay
[23:11:34] <lukas2511> normally you do not need to rework anything on the board, that's why i was a bit confused
[23:12:21] <orbifx> there is nothing connect the jumper pads marked NAND_E
[23:13:17] <orbifx> and I couldn't see the device with `diskutil list` on mac having, even though I have connected to the USB-OTG
[23:13:36] <lukas2511> it doesn't appear as disk
[23:14:09] <lukas2511> you have to boot into FEL mode and it appears as FEL usb device, you need a windows (or with the alternative tools a linux) system to flash the nand
[23:14:45] <orbifx> FEL mode?
[23:15:32] <lukas2511> that's a special kind of recovery mode on the A20, that allows you to flash nand and do some other stuff, like booting over usb to test code and stuff
[23:16:20] <lukas2511> https://www.olimex.com/wiki/A20-OLinuXino-LIME2#How_to_download_new_Android_image_to_the_NAND_memory_of_my_A20_board.3F
[23:16:28] <lukas2511> here is a description of how you normally would flash the image
[23:17:17] <orbifx> Ok, i followed that before, but didn't know I wouldn't be able to see the NAND as a disk
[23:17:47] <orbifx> So I need some kind of tool for the Mac to see the NAND device over usb or use my Linux machine?
[23:18:21] <lukas2511> you don't get access to the nand device like it being a block device
[23:19:43] <lukas2511> if you want to install linux to nand your best bet is to boot linux from microsd first, and set it up manually
[23:19:48] <lukas2511> there are guides on the forums
[23:20:14] <orbifx> ok, so the nand is behind connected to the ARM processor?
[23:21:18] <lukas2511> it is connected to the A20, and the A20 only allows you to externally access the NAND device in FEL mode, by special commands, which require special tools
[23:21:28] <lukas2511> (like phoenixsuite)
[23:21:34] <orbifx> ok
[23:22:05] <lukas2511> if you have android running you'll also get access to it like you normally would with android, as mediadevice, but that's only limited access
[23:22:42] <lukas2511> and if you know how to do stuff you could in theory boot linux from microsd and expose the nand over usb, but you'd have to do that yourself
[23:23:38] <orbifx> thats ok, I will get to that then
[23:23:44] <lukas2511> the nand on those boards is a bit annoying, i have one board with nand and i don't really use the nand because it's way to easy to break stuff and it's hard to set up (compared to just using microsd)
[23:23:45] <orbifx> I will make one sd card as an installer
[23:24:05] <orbifx> I may also just use the harddrive
[23:24:13] <orbifx> i got the 2.5'' hdd
[23:24:31] <orbifx> but i thought it would be good for the performance to use the nand
[23:24:54] <lukas2511> yea well, for readonly filesystems it is okayy
[23:24:57] <orbifx> plus, if it is like the ARM on the RPi, it can't book from the HDD directly, is that correct?
[23:25:27] <lukas2511> yep, it can't boot directly from hdd, you need to have at least the bootloader on microsd or nand
[23:26:35] <orbifx> ok
[23:26:54] <orbifx> i don't mSD cards, too many times they have failed on me
[23:27:11] <orbifx> I'll get to the bottom of how to use the NAND
[23:27:29] <orbifx> But, what do you think about the fact that the NAND_E pads are not connected?
[23:28:54] <lukas2511> are you sure they are not connected? and you really got the board with nand chip?
[23:29:58] <orbifx> the nand chip is the same width as the A20 on the top side.
[23:30:02] <orbifx> And paid for that :P
[23:30:24] <lukas2511> okay ;)
[23:30:51] <orbifx> I'll measure them now infact.. maybe it is a track and the light is not good in here
[23:30:53] <lukas2511> the NAND_E pads would only be needed to be connected to each other, and that may actually be on the pcb itself, under the silkscreen
[23:31:14] <orbifx> so it meant to be cut rather then soldered?
[23:33:21] <orbifx> ok phre
[23:33:28] <orbifx> phew it is connected
[23:33:35] <orbifx> just too small to see at first
[23:34:03] <orbifx> I expected to see some surface mount resistor or something
[23:34:20] <orbifx> so need to follow the FEL procedure and find a tool to write to the NAND via A20
[23:34:36] <orbifx> or put linux on SD card and then install to NAND card.
[23:36:00] <lukas2511> also personally i think microsd is a lot more stable
[23:36:21] <orbifx> what do you mean by stability lukas2511?
[23:36:24] <orbifx> retention?
[23:36:29] <lukas2511> when disconnecting power while the board is still running i almost always had a broken filesystem on the nand
[23:36:30] <orbifx> correcting isssues?
[23:36:38] <lukas2511> for bootloader and/or readonly it is okay
[23:36:42] <orbifx> i got the LiPo :P
[23:37:04] <orbifx> ok maybe I will put the bootloader only
[23:38:44] <orbifx> lukas2511: any materials (webpages, books, pdfs) on using ARM for development. Something describing the boot modes, procedures etc?
[23:39:24] <lukas2511> well, you'd need information about the A20 mostly, you can find a lot of stuff on linux-sunxi.org
[23:45:58] <orbifx> lukas2511: thanks
[23:46:06] <orbifx> do you work for Olimex btw? :P
[23:46:11] <lukas2511> nope
IRC #olimex 2015-07-19
[22:55:46] <orbifx> hello[22:56:01] <orbifx> Is it possible to program the NAND memory via USB-OTG?
[22:56:07] <orbifx> on the Lime2
[23:01:12] <lukas2511> yes, but you need a prebuilt image and i think there are only android images available
[23:04:29] <orbifx> what about the ones in arch?
[23:05:08] <orbifx> http://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv7/allwinner/a20-olinuxino-lime2
[23:05:32] <lukas2511> those are not nand-flashable images
[23:05:50] <orbifx> ok, I'll see how i can make some images out of those
[23:07:10] <orbifx> two other questions: 1) My board doesn't seem to have the nand pads connected. The documentation says the they need to be "closed" to be operational. Is that something the purchaser has to do?
[23:07:32] <lukas2511> "nand pads connected"? what do you mean?
[23:07:52] <orbifx> sorted, closed.
[23:08:01] <orbifx> the jumper pads.
[23:08:54] <lukas2511> sorry but atm i really don't know which jumper pads you mean
[23:09:45] <orbifx> https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A20/A20-OLinuXIno-LIME2/resources/A20-OLinuXino-LIME2-UM.pdf
[23:09:56] <orbifx> section 6.11
[23:10:01] <orbifx> NAND_E
[23:10:16] <lukas2511> ah, okay
[23:11:34] <lukas2511> normally you do not need to rework anything on the board, that's why i was a bit confused
[23:12:21] <orbifx> there is nothing connect the jumper pads marked NAND_E
[23:13:17] <orbifx> and I couldn't see the device with `diskutil list` on mac having, even though I have connected to the USB-OTG
[23:13:36] <lukas2511> it doesn't appear as disk
[23:14:09] <lukas2511> you have to boot into FEL mode and it appears as FEL usb device, you need a windows (or with the alternative tools a linux) system to flash the nand
[23:14:45] <orbifx> FEL mode?
[23:15:32] <lukas2511> that's a special kind of recovery mode on the A20, that allows you to flash nand and do some other stuff, like booting over usb to test code and stuff
[23:16:20] <lukas2511> https://www.olimex.com/wiki/A20-OLinuXino-LIME2#How_to_download_new_Android_image_to_the_NAND_memory_of_my_A20_board.3F
[23:16:28] <lukas2511> here is a description of how you normally would flash the image
[23:17:17] <orbifx> Ok, i followed that before, but didn't know I wouldn't be able to see the NAND as a disk
[23:17:47] <orbifx> So I need some kind of tool for the Mac to see the NAND device over usb or use my Linux machine?
[23:18:21] <lukas2511> you don't get access to the nand device like it being a block device
[23:19:43] <lukas2511> if you want to install linux to nand your best bet is to boot linux from microsd first, and set it up manually
[23:19:48] <lukas2511> there are guides on the forums
[23:20:14] <orbifx> ok, so the nand is behind connected to the ARM processor?
[23:21:18] <lukas2511> it is connected to the A20, and the A20 only allows you to externally access the NAND device in FEL mode, by special commands, which require special tools
[23:21:28] <lukas2511> (like phoenixsuite)
[23:21:34] <orbifx> ok
[23:22:05] <lukas2511> if you have android running you'll also get access to it like you normally would with android, as mediadevice, but that's only limited access
[23:22:42] <lukas2511> and if you know how to do stuff you could in theory boot linux from microsd and expose the nand over usb, but you'd have to do that yourself
[23:23:38] <orbifx> thats ok, I will get to that then
[23:23:44] <lukas2511> the nand on those boards is a bit annoying, i have one board with nand and i don't really use the nand because it's way to easy to break stuff and it's hard to set up (compared to just using microsd)
[23:23:45] <orbifx> I will make one sd card as an installer
[23:24:05] <orbifx> I may also just use the harddrive
[23:24:13] <orbifx> i got the 2.5'' hdd
[23:24:31] <orbifx> but i thought it would be good for the performance to use the nand
[23:24:54] <lukas2511> yea well, for readonly filesystems it is okayy
[23:24:57] <orbifx> plus, if it is like the ARM on the RPi, it can't book from the HDD directly, is that correct?
[23:25:27] <lukas2511> yep, it can't boot directly from hdd, you need to have at least the bootloader on microsd or nand
[23:26:35] <orbifx> ok
[23:26:54] <orbifx> i don't mSD cards, too many times they have failed on me
[23:27:11] <orbifx> I'll get to the bottom of how to use the NAND
[23:27:29] <orbifx> But, what do you think about the fact that the NAND_E pads are not connected?
[23:28:54] <lukas2511> are you sure they are not connected? and you really got the board with nand chip?
[23:29:58] <orbifx> the nand chip is the same width as the A20 on the top side.
[23:30:02] <orbifx> And paid for that :P
[23:30:24] <lukas2511> okay ;)
[23:30:51] <orbifx> I'll measure them now infact.. maybe it is a track and the light is not good in here
[23:30:53] <lukas2511> the NAND_E pads would only be needed to be connected to each other, and that may actually be on the pcb itself, under the silkscreen
[23:31:14] <orbifx> so it meant to be cut rather then soldered?
[23:33:21] <orbifx> ok phre
[23:33:28] <orbifx> phew it is connected
[23:33:35] <orbifx> just too small to see at first
[23:34:03] <orbifx> I expected to see some surface mount resistor or something
[23:34:20] <orbifx> so need to follow the FEL procedure and find a tool to write to the NAND via A20
[23:34:36] <orbifx> or put linux on SD card and then install to NAND card.
[23:36:00] <lukas2511> also personally i think microsd is a lot more stable
[23:36:21] <orbifx> what do you mean by stability lukas2511?
[23:36:24] <orbifx> retention?
[23:36:29] <lukas2511> when disconnecting power while the board is still running i almost always had a broken filesystem on the nand
[23:36:30] <orbifx> correcting isssues?
[23:36:38] <lukas2511> for bootloader and/or readonly it is okay
[23:36:42] <orbifx> i got the LiPo :P
[23:37:04] <orbifx> ok maybe I will put the bootloader only
[23:38:44] <orbifx> lukas2511: any materials (webpages, books, pdfs) on using ARM for development. Something describing the boot modes, procedures etc?
[23:39:24] <lukas2511> well, you'd need information about the A20 mostly, you can find a lot of stuff on linux-sunxi.org
[23:45:58] <orbifx> lukas2511: thanks
[23:46:06] <orbifx> do you work for Olimex btw? :P
[23:46:11] <lukas2511> nope
